Advice for my plumbing/renting problem?

I rented a house for a year from a terrible property management company. They were horrible with maintenance, sent collection notices before they sent the bills they were meant to collect on... you get the idea. A nightmare to work with.





A couple months ago I peeled two or three carrots into the sink and ran the skins through the garbage disposal, which clogged the sink. I called maintenance and they sent out a plumber the next day, I think. The plumber took apart the pipes under the sink and showed me that the t-shaped connector pipe was contoured in such a way on the inside that it actually restricted the space on the inside by half or more. He replaced those connector pipes with different ones that were fully open on the inside, and even ran the carrot waste back through it to verify that it was working properly (which it was).





Today I got a bill from the property management company for $195 because apparently the plumber stated on his invoice to them that it was ';caused by the tenant.';





Of course it happened because I was using the disposal, but I don't believe I was using it improperly. And if it was my fault, then why would he have had to replace the existing pipes?





If it would have been my fault, it seems to me that he would have only had to unclog the drain and not replace any pipes. So why should I have to pay for more than just unclogging the drain?





I DO NOT want to pay this bill. I don't believe it should be my responsibility. I'm interested in hearing any and all opinions on this (even if you disagree with me), but I'm especially interested in hearing a plumber's take on the situation.





And just FYI, the house was probably built in the 1950s.





Do you think this bill should be my responsibility? Advice for my plumbing/renting problem?
I will answer this in a plumbing way and legal way. You might not like this though.


1st I have been in the field for 20years and this has happened ALOT over the years to customer's of mine and apartment's I deal with.


In a plumbers point of view. This would be correct that the pipe was split in half as you say. It was a very bad design that was used in the days. In newer homes you will not find this due to the fact of problems just like yours.


Now in a legal way. 95% of the time the bill is yours to pay. (SORRY)


If you read the contract you singed when you rented im sure its in there somewhere. But for the most part. The company will pay for a cloged sink/tub etc as long as it is due to normal build up of sludge over time. Meaning if the unit is 30yrs old and you have lived there for 5 yrs there is 25yrs of use in the pipes already. They cant make you pay for other peoples build up. Now if you cause a clog thats a different story. When the pipes were put in under your sink they were up to code. It was inspected and so on. Most people think if new things come out or a new set of rules that everything must be done the new way. THIS IS NOT TRUE. It only needs to be updated if you work on that section and so on.


Now even though it is really not your fault cuz im sure the pipes were split inside and the disposer is probley not the best. You still should give it your best shot to avoid the bill.


I would call the plumber who did the job and ask him to write why he used a different kind of pipe verse the old one. Point out to him. Am I correct to say with this pipe there is a much better chance of the unit clogging due to the pipe it self rather then me. Then i would let the company know. That you dont have a problem useing the disposer as directed and you would not use it in any other way. (Get online and go to the web site of the disposer and print the spec sheet along with other info regarding what and what not you should put into the disposer.) Even if you put 1 or 100 carrots into the unit it can only grind so much at a time. Therfor it is not going to put 100% more of the carrot down the drain at one time.


With all this tell the company and give it your best shot.


This is the only thing that might help you. But like I said they will pay for things that go wrong over time and use but they wont pay for something that happened in 5 minutes wheter you knew about the pipe or not unless you were told..


goodluckAdvice for my plumbing/renting problem?
I don't think you should have to pay it. Do you happen to still have the old pipes? If so I'd take pics of them and of the new ones, for evidence. You shouldn't have to pay for


improvement on their property.
Don't pay it. Let them sue you and go to court. Just because they sue you dosen't mean they win, but you have to show up in court and have you're ducks in a row when you do.
that good advice from moon j, but it is true you are pretty much stuck with the bill.
Your lease is a legal contract and will spell out the remedies for this. Maybe somewhere there is a clause to appeal any disputed charges. If so, call the management office and request an appeal form. State your reasons for appealing this charge in clear, concise and factual form. If there is no appeal process, you are pretty much out of luck save going to small claims court if they sue you for the amount owed.
This is really a legal question.


This is my opinion as a plumber. The peel caused the clog.


The pipes was installed a long time-ago and the plumber had to replace the pipes because when you open any old pipes...most of the times they had to put new ones in.


A good landlord will assume the whole billed. But if the management stipulate on the contract (lease) that any drain problem caused by the leasor will assume the whole bill. I think you are stuck with the bill.





A good nogotiator will speak to the management company and offer to


pay 1/2 of the bill because due to the large bill and the age of the pipes. You will compromise by paying halve. Perhaps they will go with that and please do tell them of the age of the pipes.





Be firm to tell them the Garbage Disposer grind up 3- carrot peels and


it supposed to handle more than that.





It's the wear and tear factor is considered normal. You didnot deliberately jammed up the pipes. There fore you should not even have to pay the bill. But willing to go 1/2. Peace.



If it had a standard deflector T which directs the material coming out of the disposal down as it travels through then that was a proper installation (unless it was turned sideways in which case it was the wrong T to begin with) and you should be liable for clogging it. Peelings from vegetables are notorious for getting caught at the deflector point. This would be your responsibility. I recommend never putting peelings down a disposal. Since the are thin they can slip thought the slots in the disposal without getting chopped up. If I do put some down it is a few strands at a time.





However, a concerning issue is that the plumber decided to replace parts. This then falls under the responsibility of the owner/management company. You should never be financially responsible for repair or modifications that were not broken by your fault.





This may be a situation where you may be liable for the portion of the bill in which the plumber cleaned out your clog but not for the modifications.





Also in question is the condition of the disposal itself. If the disposal is very old and worn it will not perform as it should and will not process food particles well. This can cause clogging as well.





Request a copy of the plumbers bill so you can review the charges. If it is not itemized, then request that the plumber reissue an itemized bill showing fees for clearing the clog and a separate fee for modifying the drain pipes.
Call the plumber and request the old part be returned to you for physical evidence of prior pipe damage.


If the plumber can not produce the old part and declines to testify prior pipe damage, you can refuse to pay the plumber. The plumber worked for you and desires to get paid by you. Notify the plumber he will not get paid unless he complies with the demands of his employer which is you.


Check around about subscribing to Prepaid Legal (PPL). For PPL you pay a monthly fee of approx $15 for unlimited legal assistance in handling personal professional matters and disputes like this. It sounds as if you will be needing PPL for the duration of your contract with property management.


Now there is an even better approach. If you anticipate further disputes to settle with Property Management, choose not to invest in PPL, and desire to resolve the unlimited number of disputes certain to arise with Property Management, there is one last but lasting resort for the common person with little resources other than internet.


Simply select any one of those many e-mails you get daily from your deceased relative in Africa. Choose to reply with urgency to comply to the fullest extent of the law to regain your lost fortune. It is of utmost importance to substitute for your own ID, the best known ID of the person you deal with in Property Management. Several substantial checks will be forwarded to said person in Property Management. The FIB and CAI will do the dirty work of your greatest desire and property management will become the hunted rather than the hunter.


It worked for me. Knox Place Apartments in Knoxville Tennessee doesn't exist anymore. Please have respect for the dead relatives in foreign countries. The dead shall rise again. There is no remorse like the remorse of dealing with a long lost rich dead relative that only lives in the imagination of some twenty persons sending me e-mail each week.
Of course you DON'T PAY THE BILL!





The whole thing is contradicting. Have you seen the actual bill sent by the plumber to Rent Management? My suggestion would be to call the plumbing company and ask for a copy of the bill to be sent to you personally. This would be after you talk to the plumber who did the job and ask him what he actually wrote on the bill. Explain to the plumber what Rent Management is telling you.





Obviously you can trust Rent Management like you can trust a rabid dog. Rend Management is responsible for paying the bill, simple as that. You didn't do anything wrong. Don't pay the bill just to get them off your back. That's what they count on. That $195.00 can be put to better use than paying a bill you're not responsible for.





If they keep hassling you about the bill then take it to small claims court. They also count on people not making a complaint, therefore they always wind up ahead of the game while the tenant takes the loss. Don't let them get away with something they don't have a right to.